Created: 5/16/2008 11:18:24 AM 
JACKSONVILLE, FL -- In an exclusive interview, the director of the child care center behind a field trip fiasco defended her staff, even as the state drew up plans to shut her center down.
The director and partial owner of the Kid's Creations and More child care center spoke with First Coast News after some startling accusations.
Nearly forty kids from the center were stuffed into a van that only seats fifteen, according to police.
The kids were heading back to the child care center Wednesday after a field trip to Chuck E. Cheese's.
Police say one person who drove the kids that day only had a learner's permit, and another has a criminal record.
Late Friday, the Department of Children and Families announced it intends to revoke the facility's license.
DCF spokesman John Harrell said the field trip incident led to an inspection of the center, which is on Soutel Drive in Northwest Jacksonville.
That inspector found the center was over capacity, had roaches, an unstable crib, and exposed wall sockets.
But Friday afternoon, before that announcement, the director stood up for her staff.
Ora Fleming said the very idea that her staff was planning to drive a van with 38 kids inside is, "Crazy. Yeah -- crazy."
The manager of the Chuck E. Cheese's restaurant at Regency told police that what he saw was crazy: 38 kids crammed into a van built for 15.
Some were sitting on each others' laps, others were standing up inside the van, the manager said.
The child care center's director defended her staff.
Fleming says the kids were packed into the van because the restaurant's manager had thrown the group out -- and the center's staff needed somewhere to corral the kids while they waited for more vans to show up.
"The staff secured all the kids on one van, so nobody won't be running all around everywhere," she said.
Fleming says it was a short-term option, while they waited for two more vans to gas up nearby.
"But there was no plan to drive the kids anywhere in that van?" we asked. "No, no, no," was her response.
But police had another concern.
They say the people who packed the kids into the van could not legally drive.
A police report says two had no valid driver's license, and the other had just a learner's permit.
Fleming says the three licensed drivers had gone to get the gas, and when they did come back, the officer let them take the kids back to the child care center.
"The police sat there and waited -- five or so minutes -- and we pulled right up, and we loaded up accordingly," she said.
DCF says, in all, four people drove vans that day.
One was the person with just a learner's permit, and another was Fleming, who has all of the proper qualifications, DCF spokesman Harrell said.
Another driver had a license, but none of the first aid and CPR training required by the state, Harrell said.
And the final driver didn't even work for the child care center, according to Harrell, who said a background check revealed that the driver has been declared guilty of both a battery and a burglary in the past six years.
In the end, Harrell said his agency's investigators, "Do not believe children are safe in that facility."
This decision by DCF will not shut down Kid's Creations child care immediately. By law, the center has 21 days to appeal, Harrell said.
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